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> <channel><title>Comments on: Ta-ra Tara, hello homophobia?</title> <atom:link href="http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/</link> <description>A personal blog — Thoughts on TV, theatre, new media and computing</description> <lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:42:38 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" /> <item><title>By: Sally</title><link>http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/comment-page-1/#comment-1919</link> <dc:creator>Sally</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:35:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/#comment-1919</guid> <description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m going to have to disagree with you, Ronald. I think that this has been overthought excessively. Joss and David killed off a member of a couple that just happened to be gay. Joss has said himself, that &quot;it had nothing to do with them being gay. If Willow had been with Oz at this point, then we would have killed off Oz.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I can&#039;t say much about this topic that hasn&#039;t already been expressed in this first article, but to say that Joss has gone &quot;too far&quot; is, in my opinion, unjustified. The show has never shown any sort of discrimination towards the gay community, and has had many cliche&#039;s over the years. Although I understand your point of view, the vehemence and grudgingness with which you have expressed it is what has me replying with a need to defend the writers. I&#039;m not blind to the faults of this plotline, but to speak about it as though the writers intentionally set out to hurt someone.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&quot;Willing masochists to his rather distasteful sadistic tendencies.&quot; See, I find that unfair. What you call sadism, I rather think of as realism. Well, as close to realism as a science-fiction show can possess. The show doesn&#039;t bend to happy endings and cliches. Keep in mind, also, that Joss asked Amber Benson to return to the show full-time (after she turned down the part in Conversations With Dead People), and that she was unavailable. This makes me disagree with the statement in the original article, too, &quot;But in a series where death is generally no hindrance to continued appearance in the series, redemption has generally always been on offer &#8212; at least, as long as you&#8217;re straight.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes, it&#039;s cliche. Yes, it could potentially be considered offensive, but I don&#039;t think that the writers of such a diverse show, writers of the first show to show a lesbian kiss on-screen and a lesbian &quot;sex scene&quot; deserve to be slandered for any sort of anti-gay attitude.&lt;/p&gt; </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m going to have to disagree with you, Ronald. I think that this has been overthought excessively. Joss and David killed off a member of a couple that just happened to be gay. Joss has said himself, that &quot;it had nothing to do with them being gay. If Willow had been with Oz at this point, then we would have killed off Oz.&quot;</p><p>I can&#039;t say much about this topic that hasn&#039;t already been expressed in this first article, but to say that Joss has gone &quot;too far&quot; is, in my opinion, unjustified. The show has never shown any sort of discrimination towards the gay community, and has had many cliche&#039;s over the years. Although I understand your point of view, the vehemence and grudgingness with which you have expressed it is what has me replying with a need to defend the writers. I&#039;m not blind to the faults of this plotline, but to speak about it as though the writers intentionally set out to hurt someone.</p><p>&quot;Willing masochists to his rather distasteful sadistic tendencies.&quot; See, I find that unfair. What you call sadism, I rather think of as realism. Well, as close to realism as a science-fiction show can possess. The show doesn&#039;t bend to happy endings and cliches. Keep in mind, also, that Joss asked Amber Benson to return to the show full-time (after she turned down the part in Conversations With Dead People), and that she was unavailable. This makes me disagree with the statement in the original article, too, &quot;But in a series where death is generally no hindrance to continued appearance in the series, redemption has generally always been on offer &mdash; at least, as long as you&rsquo;re straight.&quot;</p><p>Yes, it&#039;s cliche. Yes, it could potentially be considered offensive, but I don&#039;t think that the writers of such a diverse show, writers of the first show to show a lesbian kiss on-screen and a lesbian &quot;sex scene&quot; deserve to be slandered for any sort of anti-gay attitude.</p>]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Ronald Bradley</title><link>http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/comment-page-1/#comment-1818</link> <dc:creator>Ronald Bradley</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:37:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://matthewman.net/2003/05/08/ta-ra-tara-hello-homophobia/#comment-1818</guid> <description>&lt;p&gt;An interesting article that raises a few important points but I must disagree with some aspects of it.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Firstly, the author states that the death of Tara can be justified dramatically.  I disagree entirely with this.  Leaving aside the implausible nature of the death itself (made all the more galling by the writers stating the intent was to show &quot;real death&quot; rather than a supernatural one) all it was was a rather lame re-hash of the previous season&#039;s &quot;Tough Love&quot; storyline of Tara getting hurt and Willow going psychotic.  It also shows that Dark Magic Willow could be achieved without Tara actually dying.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;As for Joss and the writers, I do not believe them when they say they didn&#039;t see it coming.  They were aware of the cliches, and how they were used, and yet when they write a storyline that not only comes close to the cliche, but all too often openly embraces the cliche, they don&#039;t see it?  No, I refuse to believe that educated, intelligent people are incapable of seeing that what they placed on the screen was pretty much the definitive example of the cliche in action.  So no, I do not accept Joss&#039; attempts at a non-apology.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Also, I have no sympathy for Joss in this.  Given that I believe that he knew what he was doing, can he really be surprised at the reaction?  My personal belief is that Joss started believe his own hype, and assumed his audience were willing masochists to his rather distasteful sadistic tendencies.  I think he honestly believed that no matter what he did, the audience would go with it cos he was Joss.  When he went too far, he blamed everyone else (including Amber Benson at one point) rather than admit to a mis-step.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is no part of that storyline or death scene or aftermath that makes logical or dramatic sense.  Instead all we got was a very weak, very cliched, very badly written and drawn out homage to X-men&#039;s Dark Phoenix saga that neither did it or the viewers any justice.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;My only contentment has been that Joss and his team really haven&#039;t had a hit or a decent run on a show or film since.  tara&#039;s curse has pretty much relegated them.  Joss is now planning to direct the Avengers movie and my first thought was this:  Who&#039;s getting killed off?  That is Joss&#039; legacy, and all the plusses he may make in his career cannot wipe away the negatives for cultivating then abusing a section of the audience who were sorely mislead and deceived.&lt;/p&gt; </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting article that raises a few important points but I must disagree with some aspects of it.</p><p>Firstly, the author states that the death of Tara can be justified dramatically.  I disagree entirely with this.  Leaving aside the implausible nature of the death itself (made all the more galling by the writers stating the intent was to show &quot;real death&quot; rather than a supernatural one) all it was was a rather lame re-hash of the previous season&#039;s &quot;Tough Love&quot; storyline of Tara getting hurt and Willow going psychotic.  It also shows that Dark Magic Willow could be achieved without Tara actually dying.</p><p>As for Joss and the writers, I do not believe them when they say they didn&#039;t see it coming.  They were aware of the cliches, and how they were used, and yet when they write a storyline that not only comes close to the cliche, but all too often openly embraces the cliche, they don&#039;t see it?  No, I refuse to believe that educated, intelligent people are incapable of seeing that what they placed on the screen was pretty much the definitive example of the cliche in action.  So no, I do not accept Joss&#039; attempts at a non-apology.</p><p>Also, I have no sympathy for Joss in this.  Given that I believe that he knew what he was doing, can he really be surprised at the reaction?  My personal belief is that Joss started believe his own hype, and assumed his audience were willing masochists to his rather distasteful sadistic tendencies.  I think he honestly believed that no matter what he did, the audience would go with it cos he was Joss.  When he went too far, he blamed everyone else (including Amber Benson at one point) rather than admit to a mis-step.</p><p>There is no part of that storyline or death scene or aftermath that makes logical or dramatic sense.  Instead all we got was a very weak, very cliched, very badly written and drawn out homage to X-men&#039;s Dark Phoenix saga that neither did it or the viewers any justice.</p><p>My only contentment has been that Joss and his team really haven&#039;t had a hit or a decent run on a show or film since.  tara&#039;s curse has pretty much relegated them.  Joss is now planning to direct the Avengers movie and my first thought was this:  Who&#039;s getting killed off?  That is Joss&#039; legacy, and all the plusses he may make in his career cannot wipe away the negatives for cultivating then abusing a section of the audience who were sorely mislead and deceived.</p>]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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